प्रिन्ट अनुकूल, पीडीएफ र ईमेल

कारण र प्रभाव मार्फत काम गर्दै

मा आधारित एक बहु-भाग पाठ्यक्रम खुला मन, सफा मन श्रावस्ती अबे मासिकमा दिइन्छ धर्म दिवस साझा गर्दै अप्रिल 2007 देखि डिसेम्बर 2008 सम्म। तपाईं पुस्तक मार्फत गहिरो अध्ययन गर्न सक्नुहुन्छ श्रावस्ती एबे फ्रेन्ड्स एजुकेशन (सेफ) अनलाइन सिकाइ कार्यक्रम।

  • ठोस कारण र सहकारी कारणहरूको परिभाषा
  • Taking vows accumulates positive karma, but what about those who are not Buddhist who make a strong determination to do something or not do something?
  • Innate self-grasping arises spontaneously, but how can that happen if everything is under the influence of causes and conditions?
  • के हाम्रो मनसायले हाम्रो प्रार्थनालाई गन्तव्यमा पुर्‍याउँछ?
  • Is it more powerful if you have more precepts when you make prayers?
  • आत्मा हानि के हो र तपाईं कारणहरू कसरी सिर्जना गर्नुहुन्छ?
  • विगतका घटनाहरूको बारेमा रमाइलो गर्दै
  • हाम्रो मनमा कथाहरू सिर्जना गर्दै र भावनाहरूलाई दबाए
  • Self-centeredness and paranoia

मेडिसिन बुद्ध रिट्रीट २००८: ०६ प्रश्नोत्तर (डाउनलोड)

प्रेरणा खेती गर्दै

हामीले भोगेका सबै पीडाहरू मुख्यतया अरूलाई हानि पुर्‍याएर आउँछन् - दस गैर-गुणहरूद्वारा, अरूको कल्याणलाई हानि पुर्‍याएर। र नतिजाको रूपमा यसले हामीमा पनि पीडा र दुःख ल्याउँछ। अरूलाई हानि पुर्‍याउनु आफैलाई पनि हानि पुर्‍याउँछ - तिनीहरू फरक छैनन्।

यदि हामी आफैं खुसी हुन चाहन्छौं भने, हामीले अरूलाई हानि गर्न छोड्नुपर्छ र बरु तिनीहरूको फाइदाको लागि प्रयास गर्नुपर्छ।

अग्रभूमिमा प्रार्थना झण्डाहरू सहित हिउँले ढाकिएको एबे।

हामी हाम्रो जीवनकालमा जुनसुकै ठुलो वा सानो तरिकाबाट लाभ उठाउने प्रयास गर्छौं। (तस्बिर श्रावस्ती अबेले)

हामी हाम्रो जीवनकालमा जुनसुकै ठुलो वा सानो तरिकाबाट लाभ उठाउने प्रयास गर्छौं। निस्सन्देह लाभको सबैभन्दा ठूलो तरिका भनेको तिनीहरूलाई ज्ञानको मार्ग देखाउन सक्षम हुनु हो। र त्यसो गर्नको लागि हामीले त्यो बाटो आफैंलाई साकार गर्न आवश्यक छ। र त्यसोभए हामी सबै संवेदनशील प्राणीहरूको फाइदाको लागि त्यो गर्ने दृढ संकल्प उत्पन्न गरौं: हाम्रो आत्म र अरू। र यसैले अहिले नै छलफल गर्न र दैनिक जीवनमा हाम्रा सबै कार्यहरू सबैको हितको लागि बुद्ध बन्ने दीर्घकालीन उद्देश्यका साथ गर्ने।

ठोस कारण र सहकारी सर्तहरू

म भर्खरै केहि कुरामा फर्कन चाहन्छु जुन हामीले गत हप्ता कुरा गरेका थियौं। कसैले कारण सोधे । त्यसैले, मैले यसलाई हेरे। कुनै चीजको परिभाषा जुन पर्याप्त कारण हो: "जो प्रभावको प्रमुख उत्पादक हो, यसको पर्याप्त निरन्तरतामा।" ठीक छ, बुझ्यो?

र त्यसपछि दोस्रो कुरा हो: कार्यात्मक घटना एक ठोस कारण हुन सक्छ, वा सहकारी कारण हुन सक्छ। सहकारी कारण भनेको अर्को चीज उत्पादन गर्न मद्दत गर्ने चीज हो।

The substantial cause is the principle of the producer of an effect in its substantial continuum. There’s got to be a continuum of the “substance.” We were talking about how the wood becomes the table. It’s continuation of the wood as it’s becoming a table. And then when we talk about the mind: one moment of mind produces the next moment of mind. One moment of mind is the substantial cause for the next moment because the two moments of mind have the same substance, or “nature,” or “entity.” Then you have things that are cooperative conditions that are the other things that add in to make something happen.

Remember we were talking about the seed producing the sprout, the seed is the substantial cause and then the water and fertilizer and those things are the cooperative conditions. The definition of something that’s a cooperative condition: “is that which principally produces its cooperating effect, not present in its own substantial continuum.” What that means is that it helps produce something else, but it’s not in the same continuation of “substance.” The person who made the table, that person didn’t become the table—they helped make the table, but they didn’t become the table.

They use the example of the seeds. So in terms of, like, if they were going to talk about a rebirth. It’s saying here that the substantial cause of the rebirth, in other words the principal cause of the rebirth, is the karma. The karma is the principal cause of the rebirth, but our present aggregates are cooperative conditions.

Or you could do it this way, you know in the 12 links how you have: ignorance creates karma—the karma leaves a seed on the consciousness. That karma is the substantial cause for that rebirth. But then for that karma to ripen at the time of death you need craving and grasping.

Craving and grasping are like the cooperative condition for the next rebirth because they’re what make the karma ripen. And, when the karma ripens it becomes that link of existence, which is the karma as it’s almost ready to give its result. And then that produces the next rebirth.

In the same way they say bodhicitta is the principal cause of enlightenment; something absolutely necessary. But it’s not that bodhicitta turns into enlightenment. Because if you’re looking at the Buddha’s mind, you would have to say the clear and knowing of the tenth level bodhisattva’s mind is the substantial cause for the first moment of the clear and knowing which is the Buddha’s mind, because one moment of mind is the substantial cause for the next. It’s a little bit confusing how they use the terms substantial cause here and say it’s very close to principal cause—because they always say bodhicitta is the principal cause of enlightenment. It’s not like bodhicitta itself turns into enlightenment.

दर्शक: Is that because the bodhicitta is when you reach enlightenment its….

आदरणीय थबटेन चोड्रन (VTC): No, the bodhicitta’s still there, and bodhicitta is the principal thing that’s going to get you to enlightenment. But you’re in meditative equipoise when you attain enlightenment. At that point when you’re in meditative equipoise the bodhicitta isn’t manifest. It’s actually the consciousness with the wisdom realizing emptiness that’s the last moment of the sentient being that becomes the first moment when you’re a Buddha. Then when you’re a Buddha you’ll also still have the bodhicitta. But now you can have them both manifest at the same time.

त्यसपछि तिनीहरूले यहाँ प्रत्यक्ष र अप्रत्यक्ष कारणहरूको बारेमा पनि कुरा गरे किनभने त्यहाँ काम गर्ने चीजहरू विभाजित गर्ने विभिन्न तरिकाहरू छन्।

म प्रत्यक्ष र अप्रत्यक्ष कारणहरूमा जानु भन्दा पहिले, किनकि तपाईंले पछिल्लो पटक सोध्नु भएको थियो कि यदि सबै कुरा कम्तिमा केहि अन्यको लागि पर्याप्त कारण हो। र जवाफ छैन। उदाहरणका लागि, ध्वनि। यसमा पर्याप्त निरन्तरता छैन - ध्वनि समाप्त हुन्छ। तपाईं अर्को क्षण उत्पादन ध्वनि को एक क्षण हुन सक्छ; तर एक निश्चित क्षणमा ध्वनिले पछि केहि उत्पन्न गर्दैन, यो समाप्त हुन्छ। ध्वनिको त्यो अन्तिम भाग भविष्यमा कुनै पनि चीजको लागि पर्याप्त कारण होइन किनभने यो भविष्यमा ध्वनिमा परिणत हुँदैन।

दर्शक: यो केहि मा परिणत हुन्छ, हैन?

VTC: मलाई थाहा छैन। यो केहि मा परिणत हुन्छ, तर यो केहि मा परिणत हुँदैन जुन ध्वनि को निरन्तरता हो, किनकि आवाज बन्द हुन्छ। हुनसक्छ यो केवल कुनै प्रकारको तरंग वा ऊर्जा, वा जे पनि हुन्छ।

वा मैनबत्तीको अन्तिम क्षण जस्तै। ईन्धन मैनबत्तीको ज्वालाको लागि पर्याप्त कारण बन्छ। जब इन्धन बन्द हुन्छ, मैनबत्ती बन्द हुन्छ र त्यसपछि मैनबत्तीको प्रकाश बन्द हुन्छ। यसको अर्को ठोस कारण छैन, त्यो प्रकाश छैन, यो बन्द हुन्छ।

सकारात्मक कर्मिक बीउहरू पाक्नका लागि सर्तहरू सेट गर्दै

Think about the principal thing that becomes something else. It’s very helpful—what it gets us to do is to think about how things come about; because sometimes we’re very narrow-minded. We think one cause produces one result. It’s like when you’re in kindergarten, the way they explain karma is if you kill somebody you get killed. Well, it’s not exactly that simple. You know that’s kind of kindergarten karma. There’s that actions produce the karmic seed, that’s the principal thing that’s going to create that situation. But then, it’s not good enough to have that karmic seed, because we have all kinds of karmic seeds in our mind right now, don’t we? Incredible number of karmic seeds from previous lives, some good, some bad, who knows what is in our minds.

Now, what karmic seed ripens this specific time, depends on cooperative conditions and that’s why it’s really good to stay around Dharma friends, because Dharma friends act as good cooperative conditions that are going to nourish your positive karma to ripen. And then when that positive karma ripens, hopefully you’re going to create more positive karma.Whereas if you stay around people who don’t have good ethical values, then as we all know, we start copying them and get influenced by them. And they become the cooperative conditions for our creating more non-virtue which gets us into more trouble.

You can see some karma ripening. It’s not just good enough to have that karma, you have to have the conditions that make it ripen.

Another good example is, when you’re drinking and drugging, that’s a really good condition for negative karma to ripen. If you’re driving a car and you’re drinking and drugging and you have the karma to get hurt in your mindstream. Well, that’s a good cooperative condition to make that karma ripen. That’s why we look not just at what the main cause is, but what are the cooperative conditions; because if one cooperative condition isn’t there then the whole thing doesn’t happen.

Remember, for example the 9-11 day and how some people missed a plane and then some people were on standby and got it at the last minute; and how weird that seems. A plane going down: that depends on the karma of everybody in it having that karma to be injured or killed, and that karma being ready to ripen at that moment. And then the terrorists, acting as the cooperative conditions for that, but then somebody who doesn’t have that karma to be killed, then they missed the plane.

Or maybe, let’s say there’s somebody who doesn’t have that karma but they get on the plane, maybe that makes it so that the whole thing is going to be really different because somebody’s got to survive because they don’t have the karma to be killed in it. The whole thing’s going to turn out different. Do you see what I mean?

Things are very, very complicated: this web of interrelationship. We talk about the butterfly in Singapore that flaps its wings, and then that makes somebody else in a good mood, which makes them be nice to somebody else, which makes them do something and then la, la, la, la, la, and then down the line somebody in New York gets the benefit, gets some result from that. That’s how cooperative conditions work.

Cooperative conditions are just as important as the principal cause. For example, one of the things is when we take precepts: we’re stopping the substantial causes for negativities. But then also because we’re limiting our behavior, we’re limiting some situations that could be very good cooperative conditions for the ripening of negative karma.

It’s very helpful to think about things like this. It makes us really understand how complex dependent arising is: that things aren’t real simple and direct. And how there are some factors in a situation we can control and some factors that we can’t control. It’s a whole big mix of a lot of different causes and conditions going on.

प्रत्यक्ष र अप्रत्यक्ष कारणहरू

तिनीहरू प्रत्यक्ष र अप्रत्यक्ष कारणहरूको बारेमा पनि कुरा गर्छन्। प्रत्यक्ष कारण - तपाईलाई यो परिभाषा मन पर्नेछ। यो धेरै सामान्य छ: "प्रत्यक्ष कारणको परिभाषा भनेको त्यो हो जसले प्रत्यक्ष उत्पादन गर्दछ। अप्रत्यक्ष कारणको परिभाषा भनेको अप्रत्यक्ष रूपमा उत्पादन गर्ने हो।" यहाँ उनिहरुले बिउ नै अंकुर हुनुको प्रत्यक्ष कारणको उदाहरण दिएका थिए । बीउ पनि महत्वपूर्ण कारण हो। तर यो पनि प्रत्यक्ष कारण हो किनभने यो तुरुन्तै अघिल्लो चीज हो जुन अंकुर उत्पादन गर्न गइरहेको छ।

An indirect cause would be the plant that produced the seed; because the direct cause is that which came immediately preceding the result. Whereas you may have had a whole continuum of causes going back; they’re still in that whole continuum, but they’re indirect because they weren’t what’s there right before that object came. The direct cause of the table would be the piece of wood, but the indirect cause would be the tree that the wood came from—something further back. The direct cause of our body is our parents—our parents’ sperm and egg. Indirect cause is all those generations of people before us.

दर्शक: तपाईं एक अप्रत्यक्ष पर्याप्त कारण हुन सक्छ?

VTC: हो, मलाई लाग्छ तपाईंले तिनीहरूलाई सँगै राख्न सक्नुहुन्छ।

दर्शक: यो प्रत्यक्ष कारण मुख्य कारण हुनुपर्छ जस्तो देखिन्छ।

VTC: हो, केहि ठोस कारण र एउटै कुराको प्रत्यक्ष कारण हुन सक्छ। कार्य गर्ने चीजहरू वर्गीकरण गर्ने धेरै तरिकाहरू छन्। एक प्रत्यक्ष र अप्रत्यक्ष मा छ; अर्को महत्वपूर्ण र सहकारी मा छ।

यदि हामीले प्रत्यक्ष र अप्रत्यक्ष रूपमा वर्गीकरण गर्छौं भने, यसले हामीलाई केहि उत्पादनमा संलग्न समय तत्वको तत्वको रूपमा ध्यान दिइरहेको छ। ठोस र सहकारीले हामीलाई कुनै खास चीजको प्रकार्यको सन्दर्भमा हेर्न पाउँछ, यसले अरूलाई कसरी मद्दत गर्दछ। किनभने बगैँचामा पानी हाल्ने व्यक्तिले कसरी अंकुर पैदा गर्छ वा पानीले अंकुर कसरी फलाउँछ त्योभन्दा बीउले कसरी अंकुर पैदा गर्छ त्यो फरक हुन्छ।

हाम्रो कर्म बीज र शुद्धि

दर्शक: We have all these zillions of karmic seeds in our mind which are negative, neutral, positive, so we’re in certain conditions, and if we held ourselves in only positive conditions, like taking all the vows, keeping them, being with Dharma friends and teachers, what happens to all those negative seeds? Do they go away at some point or do they sit there waiting?

VTC: We have a lot of negative seeds. If we always keep ourselves in positive conditions, what happens to those negative seeds? First of all, before I answer that question, keeping yourself always in positive conditions does not guarantee that none of the negative karma’s going to ripen. You can take vows, and live in a good community and you can still get sick, don’t you? You still get sick, you can still have all sorts of things happen to you, or people criticize you, or you don’t have any money or whatever it is. Just because you put yourself in good conditions, it doesn’t mean that no negative karma’s going to ripen. It just means that you’re taking away some of the conditions that could cause that negative karma to ripen. There are still other negative karmas that don’t need much, just sitting there like popcorn ready to pop.

Then, in terms of you having some karma that could ripen: if you put yourself in a certain situation that karma’s still there, remember? Of the qualities of karma one is that it doesn’t disappear. That’s why you do purification practice. That karma’s still there and it’s going to wait until another time to ripen. That’s why we do the purification, because the purification, it either stops the conditions from coming together or it makes it when it ripens: it produces a smaller unpleasant negative effect, or it doesn’t last a long, or something like that.

VTC: हामी यस हप्ताबाट तपाईसँग हुन सक्ने प्रश्नहरूमा जान सक्छौं।

दृढ संकल्प शक्ति

दर्शक: What about people who take vows without being a Buddhist, or secular people who make an intentional choice to not drink, but they don’t do it with the thought beyond this life. They who make a strong determination to do something or not do something. How does this affect their karma?

VTC: In the Abhidharma when they talk about vows, they talk about different kinds and one is the pratimoksha vow that we take. And one is called, if you translate it, it comes out as non-vow, or un-vow, or anti-vow. What it means: a person who’s made a strong determination to do some negative. They haven’t taken a vow in front of anybody. For example, a butcher: a butcher says, “This is my career, this is my occupation, I’m going to kill.” Or a soldier, or a hunter, a who-knows-what. Someone who’s made a strong determination to do some kind of action repeatedly—that’s called this non-vow, or anti-vow, or whatever it is. That makes the karma kind of stronger when you do that.

It doesn’t say anything about people who aren’t Buddhist or who are Buddhist but don’t go through the ceremony. My personal feeling is that whenever you make a strong determination it’s going to affect the karma. So if you make a strong determination, even it has nothing to do with Buddhism or whatever and [they] don’t even think about future lives. [But] like you said: Somebody saying nothing but they just think, “I’m not going to drink,” or, “I’m not going to lie” or what ever—the force of that strong determination is something quite positive in the mind and it’s going to hold them back from doing something negative.

जन्मजात आत्म-ग्रहण र कर्म

दर्शक: I have a question about innate self-grasping that arises spontaneously. But how can that happen if everything is under the influence of cause and condition?

VTC: सहजको अर्थ विपरीत, कारण नभएको होइन। स्वतःस्फूर्त भनेको मात्र हो, "बूम" यस्तो [हाँसो]—स्वस्फूर्त भन्नाले यसको कुनै कारण छैन भन्ने होइन। यो एक प्रकारको चीज हो जुन सहज रूपमा प्रज्वलित हुन्छ; यसको मतलब यो होइन कि आगो लाग्नुको कुनै कारण थिएन। एउटा कारण थियो।

प्रार्थना र इरादा

दर्शक: I was wondering about, I have no doubt about the power of prayer. But when we make prayers for someone, it’s my feeling that mantra and prayers are so powerful, they go beyond who we’re dedicating them for. We’ve also read stories about certain groups of people, like heart patients who are prayed for and another group that wasn’t prayed for. Our intention, does it truly direct where our prayers and aspirations go?

VTC: के तपाइँ एक व्यक्तिको लागि प्रार्थना गर्नुभयो भने, धेरै मानिसहरूले पनि लाभ प्राप्त गर्न सक्छन् भन्ने हो?

दर्शक: के हाम्रो मनसायले ती प्रार्थनाहरूलाई गन्तव्यमा लैजान्छ?

VTC: Does our intention take the prayers to their destination? You have a UPS driver who never gets lost. [laughter] I can’t tell you the exact dependent arising of how the power of prayer works, but I think the mind is very powerful. We understand physical cause and effect because we see it with our senses. But mental cause and effect is a lot more difficult because we’re very sensually oriented, aren’t we? There’s got to be some way of dependent of arising, whereby somebody praying for somebody else can bring a good effect—it can help benefit that person. Of course that person needs some good karma themselves.

I heard a joke one time—I’ll put it in a Buddhist context. This person was praying and praying, “Buddha, I want to win the lottery, tell me the numbers to win the lottery.” He prays for that and he doesn’t hear anything from the Buddha, and so he prays again: “Buddha, I want to win the lottery.” This goes on and on and on. He still doesn’t get his numbers and he still doesn’t win the lottery. Finally he says, “Buddha what’s wrong?” And Buddha said, “Buy a ticket.” In other words, it isn’t just the power of somebody’s prayer that helps, that person has to create the karma themselves to be benefited by this whole interconnected web of causes and conditions.

दर्शक: Along those lines, I was also wondering about the difference between someone who, like a lay person making prayers and someone who’s monastic who has all these vows, and so wouldn’t their prayer be more powerful? But then there’s this thing of karmic connection.

VTC: Is it more powerful if you have more vows, more precepts when you make prayers? Yes. That’s why people often make offerings to the monastic community and ask them to do pujas। तर, जसरी तपाईंले बाहिर ल्याउनुभयो, यो कसैसँग कर्मको सम्बन्ध भएको कुरा पनि हो। र यदि तपाईं एक सामान्य व्यक्ति हुनुहुन्छ भने, यसले तपाईंको प्रार्थनालाई विशेष गरी बलियो बनाउन सक्छ किनभने कसैसँग तपाईंको कर्मिक सम्बन्धको कारण।

याद गर्नुहोस् कि त्यहाँ धेरै कारणहरू छन्, यो केवल एक मात्र होइन - र विभिन्न कारणहरू विभिन्न शक्तिहरू हुन सक्छन्। यहाँ विभिन्न कुराहरू भइरहेका छन्।

Some people think, “Well, okay, I’ll just go down to the monastery here and make an offering and then I’ll have tea and they can do the prayers for my relative.” That’s not so good. They have the karmic connection; it’s good if they also do the prayers. But if they make an offering and then ask for prayers, that’s also very good because then there’s people who have more precepts, who are directing their energy in that way.

आत्माले हानि गर्छ

दर्शक: म आत्मा हानि बारे सोच्दै छु। हामी कारणहरू सिर्जना गर्न के गर्छौं? यसलाई कसरी मान्यता दिइन्छ?

VTC: In my way of thinking, spirit harm is basically like when another person harms you. It’s just not somebody you can see. But it’s the same thing. In a previous life, you did something harmful to somebody so you created that karma to be harmed. This time, instead of somebody physically coming and doing something to you, it works in another way through a spirit causing some kind of damage. But it’s the same thing.

यसले आत्मिक हानि कसरी चिन्नुहुन्छ? त्यो राम्रो प्रश्न हो। परम पावनले भन्नुहुन्छ कि धेरै पटक तिब्बतीहरूले आत्माहरूसँग कुनै सरोकार नभएका कुराहरू आत्माहरूलाई दोष दिन्छन्। उनी भन्छन्, "ओहो, तिमी यसलाई आत्मिक हानि भन्छौ, यो आत्मिक हानि होइन।"

In my own personal experience, it seems to me that certain kinds of…. I have no direct experience, just some kind of feeling I got. Once I had one friend who had very, very severe depression. One time I was with him and it was very, very severe. I started doing Chenrezig mantra out loud. He just started crying. I got the very strong feeling that it was as if it was a spirit harm and the spirit couldn’t bear the sound of the mantra. That was completely my namtokपूर्ण रूपमा मेरो दिमागबाट आउँदैछ। मलाई थाहा छैन कि यो एक मान्य कोग्नाइजर हो वा होइन।

I remember one time I was in a very bad mood, “What’s going on with this bad mood?” Then I thought, “Oh, if it’s a spirit harm, let me do the taking-and-giving meditation for that spirit.” I did that and then the bad mood was gone.

Sometimes basically you need some kind of telepathic power to do that. That’s why people in the Tibetan community would usually go to a lama and ask if it’s a spirit harm or not. If the lama says yes, it doesn’t necessarily mean it is. Like His Holiness said the Tibetans think a lot of things are spirit harms that aren’t. But the basic antidote is compassion. Whenever someone is trying to harm you, whatever kind of body they have, if you have compassion for them it’s a very good remedy.

VTC: यो हप्ता सबैलाई कस्तो छ ? के भइरहेको छ? के हुँदैछ?

कथाको पीडा, नाटक, अवधारणा

दर्शक: हिजो सामुदायिक बैठकमा धेरै मानिसहरूले बोलेको कुराको म साँच्चै प्रशंसा गर्दैछु र म यस बारे सचेत हुन प्रयास गरिरहेको छु। यस क्षणमा जब कसैले केहि बोल्छ वा केहि गर्छ जुन सुरुमा प्रत्येक पल पछि हानिकारक देखिन्छ - त्यो घटना बन्द भएको छ। र त्यस पछि हरेक पल म केहि प्रकारको पीडा महसुस गर्दैछु पूर्णतया यसको केवल एक अवधारणामा आधारित छ किनभने सबै कुरा अतीत हो। यो तपाईंले हिजो भन्नु भएको जस्तो छ — हुनसक्छ उनीहरूले गरेको हानि यति धेरै हो [थोरै मात्रालाई संकेत गर्दछ] र यसको बारेमा मेरो सोचाइ पछि मैले आफूलाई गरेको हानि यो भन्दा माथि छ।

मैले याद गरिरहेको थिएँ—मलाई लाग्छ कि यो यहाँ यो वातावरणमा मात्र भएको हो र मेरो दिमागलाई हेर्नको लागि थप ठाउँ छ कि म यसलाई सबै ठाउँमा समातिरहेको छु। यो हेर्न धेरै रमाइलो छ। मलाई लाग्छ कि एक साता भित्रमा देखा पर्ने नाटकहरूको संख्या वास्तवमा कम र कम बढ्दै गएको छ। चीजहरू जुन दुई महिना अघि म पहिलो पटक यहाँ आइपुगेको थिएँ र सायद थोरै स्थिर थिएँ, दिनहरूका लागि तानिएको हुन्थ्यो, कहिलेकाहीँ अब दस मिनेट वा एक घण्टा जति छोटो हुन सक्छ। मलाई लाग्छ कि यो एक अद्भुत कुरा हो। म त्यसमा खुसी छु।

VTC: That’s very good and that’s really true. I think that’s a benefit you can see when you meditate. You begin to see that a situation happens, it ceases, and then the conceptual mind jumps in and makes a story about it and keeps the whole thing going. The person that you have the interaction with, they’re off doing something else, the whole situation is completely over, but our mind ruminates, and goes round and around and around. We make the whole thing enormous, and we make ourselves miserable in the process of it. It’s nice you’re seeing that when you can catch the story, and press the pause button or unplug the machine all together, the number of dramas you have each week, just gets smaller and smaller because the mind isn’t creating the drama. You can see this so clearly when you meditate. You walk into the session, your mind is perfectly calm, you sit down, then you think of some interaction you had with somebody. It could be ten minutes ago or ten years ago, it really doesn’t matter. As soon as you think about it, “Oh, they said this and that. Why are they doing this and not doing that? Why is this? It must mean this and it must mean that. It’s always happening to me. It’s not only this person, it’s that person. What am I going to do about it? I’m so miserable. I really need to stop this meditation session so I can go talk to them. But I don’t have their phone number because it was ten years ago.”

We go on and on and then the bell rings at the end of the session. You open your eyes and you realize you were in your own personally created hell realm because you’re sitting there in the meditation hall and the person you had the interaction with is not there. The interaction is not happening.

It becomes so evident that it’s our mind making the drama. Don’t you think? If this is all you recognize from the retreat, you’ve had a very successful retreat because this is one of the main causes of our problems—this hyperactive conceptual mind that’s writing dramas all the time. When they talk about “let go of the past and let go of the future,” that’s what they’re talking about. Let go of this mind that’s either ruminating about the past, going round and round and round, or ruminating about the future in anxiety going round and round and round. It’s usually with the past we ruminate either in anger and attachment, or the future either in attachment or anxiety. Nothing’s happening now.

दर्शक: म केवल यो भन्न चाहन्छु कि मलाई कुनै न कुनै रूपमा यो आलोचनात्मक रूपमा महत्त्वपूर्ण छ। रिट्रीटको सुरुमा, मैले मेरो मुख्य कुरा भनेको थिएँ कि म अधिक समानुपातिक हुन केही तरिकाहरू खोज्न प्रयास गर्न चाहन्छु। मैले भर्खरै सोचेको छु कि मैले भेटेका केही चिकित्सकहरू त्यस्ता अभ्यासकर्ताहरू थिए जहाँ जे पनि हुन सक्छ र तिनीहरूको दिमागहरू गडबड गर्दैनन्। अष्ट्रेलियामा मेरो शिक्षक त्यस्तै छ। यो किन हुनुपर्दछ - किनकि उनीहरूले भविष्यमा वा विगतमा वा जुनसुकै कुरामा धेरै समय खर्च गर्दैनन्। तिनीहरू नेभिगेट गर्न सक्षम छन् जस्तो छ।

VTC: सहि। यो अहिले मनको शान्तिको लागि एक धेरै राम्रो तरिका हो। तपाईंले भन्नुभएझैं, तपाईंले भेट्नुभएको व्यक्तिहरू जो सबै कुरामा त्यति प्रतिक्रियाशील छैनन्, यो किनभने तिनीहरूले यी कथाहरू बनाउँदैनन्। किनभने यदि हामीले आफ्नै दिमागमा हेर्‍यौं भने, हामी साना-साना कुराहरूमा कति प्रतिक्रियाशील छौं।

के तपाईलाई कहिले यस्तो भएको छ जहाँ कोही तपाईकहाँ आएर भन्यो, "ओहो, तिमीले ब्ला, ब्ला, ब्ला, र मैले ब्ला, ब्ला, ब्ला, महसुस गरें," र तपाईले अवस्था सम्झन पनि सक्नुहुन्न। वा हुनसक्छ तपाईलाई अवस्था याद छ, तर तपाईलाई व्यक्ति तर्फ कुनै खराब इरादा थिएन। र तैपनि, यो व्यक्तिले तपाईसँग कुरा गर्न नआउन्जेलसम्म तिनीहरूको दिमागले बनाएको कथाको कारणले यो सबै समय कष्ट भोगेको छ।

हामी ठ्याक्कै उस्तै कुरा गर्छौं। निस्सन्देह, अन्य मानिसहरूले यो गर्दा देख्न धेरै सजिलो छ किनभने हामीलाई थाहा छ कि उनीहरूले बनाएको कथा गलत हो। तर जब हामी अरू कसैको बारेमा कथा बनाउँछौं, हामी पक्का छौं कि यो सत्य हो! हामी पक्का छौं कि यो सत्य हो, र त्यसपछि हामी यसको लागि जान्छौं। हामी धेरै दुखी हुन्छौं।

दबाएका भावनाहरू

दर्शक: That describes my feeling the last two weeks. [laughter] The thing that’s hard for me is this thing about emotions that are suppressed. How do you access them? I know it doesn’t work to hang out with the past and all the, “But, but, but [excuses]”—it just doesn’t work. But I don’t see how you deal with the things you wouldn’t necessarily access unless you stay there and allow yourself to feel pain or whatever it is. And then how to not do harm? I found myself walling myself off by silence about a week ago. There’s this thing about containing it as you work things out. But I felt like I just built this huge thing around me—this protection of silence. I just don’t see the way out of the way I’m feeling things.

VTC: त्यो राम्रो प्रश्न हो। जब तपाईको दिमागले यी सबै कथाहरू बनाइरहेको हुन्छ र तपाईले दबाइएका भावनाहरू र त्यस्ता चीजहरूको बारेमा कुरा गरिरहनुभएको थियो।

तपाईंसँग केवल दबाइएका भावनाहरू छन् किनभने तपाईंसँग एउटा कथा छ। तपाईंले कथा छोड्ने बित्तिकै, तपाईंसँग यसको बारेमा कुनै भावना छैन। कथा छोड्ने बित्तिकै, त्यहाँ कुनै भावना छैन।

यदि म यहाँ बसिरहेको छु भने क्रोधित भएको कारणले, "यसैले यस्तो गर्यो र त्यो, ब्ला, ब्ला, अन र अन।" मलाई के कुराले विचलित तुल्याइरहेको छ त्यो होइन कि तिनीहरूले गरे। मलाई दुखित बनाएको कुरा मेरो कथा हो। तिनीहरूले के गरे गए। मैले मेरो कथा छोड्ने बित्तिकै, दबाउनको लागि कुनै भावना छैन।

दर्शक: यो यस्तो लडाई जस्तो महसुस गर्ने चीज हो। मलाई थाहा छैन कि यो दबाइएका भावनाहरूसँग सम्बन्धित छ तर यसले काम गर्न छोडेसम्म [कथा छोड्दै] काम गर्दछ। त्यसपछि यो फिर्ता आउँछ र म अर्को उपकरण प्रयास गर्छु।

VTC: तपाईं कथा छोड्नुहोस् र तपाईं एक दिनको लागि ठीक हुनुहुन्छ। त्यसपछि अचानक, तपाईं कथा फेरि सोच्दै हुनुहुन्छ। यो धेरै बानी को कारण हो। हामीले कथालाई निरन्तर छोड्नुपर्छ। त्यहाँ केही कथाहरू छन् जुन हामीले लामो समयदेखि आफैंलाई सुनाउँदै आएका छौं कि तिनीहरू सोच्ने बानी मात्र हुन्: “म सधैं छोडिने व्यक्ति हुँ। म सधैं सम्झौताको कच्चा अन्त प्राप्त गर्ने एक हुँ। सबैले अस्वीकार गर्ने म नै हुँ। सबैले त्याग्ने म नै हुँ।" त्यसपछि स्थिति पछि परिस्थितिमा फर्किन्छ। त्यसोभए हामी यसलाई देख्छौं र हामी त्यो विशेष कथा छोड्छौं। हामीले "यसरी मलाई त्याग्दै" को कथा छोडेका छौं, तर हामीले "म सधैं त्यागिएको हुँ" को कथा छोडेका छैनौं।

वा म कथा छोड्छु, "यस्तो र कसले मलाई अपमान गर्यो" तर मैले कथा छोडेको छैन, "यो उचित होइन कि म सधैं त्यस्तो व्यक्ति हुँ जो मेरो गल्ती होइनन्, र मैले केहि नगरेको बेला अपमानित भयो।" हामीले सम्पूर्ण कथा छोडेका छैनौं। कहिलेकाहीँ हामीले त्यो अवस्थाको कथा छोडेका हुन सक्छौं तर किनभने हामीले यो लामो समयदेखि सोचिरहेका छौं, यो फिर्ता आउँछ। साथै किनभने हामीले सम्पूर्ण कथा छोडेका छैनौं, त्यसपछि यो फेरि आउँछ। तपाईंले फेरि एन्टिडोट र प्लङ्क लागू गर्नुपर्नेछ - यसलाई छोड्नुहोस्, यसलाई छोड्नुहोस्, यसलाई छोड्नुहोस्।

दर्शक: मैले हिजो राती [केहि] पढें जसले मलाई यसलाई फ्रेम गर्न मद्दत गर्‍यो, यसलाई पुरानो रोगको रूपमा सोच्नु हो। यदि हामीले यी कारणहरू सुरुहीन समयमा सिर्जना गरेका छौं भने, त्यो धेरै पुरानो हो। [हाँसो] यसलाई छोड्न गाह्रो छ।

VTC: र, तपाईं एक चिकित्सक हुनुहुन्थ्यो। तपाईलाई थाहा छ तपाईले मानिसहरूको मांसपेशीलाई पुन: तालिम दिन सक्नुहुन्छ। तिनीहरूले यो गरिरहनु पर्छ।

दर्शक: सहि। कहिले हार नमानु।

मनको नकारात्मक अवस्थाहरू ह्यान्डल गर्नुहोस्

VTC: तपाईले आफ्नो दिमागलाई पुन: प्रशिक्षित गरिरहनु भएको छ र यो सजिलो हुन्छ।

मलाई तपाईंको प्रश्नको दोस्रो भागको जवाफ दिनुहोस्। तपाईले भन्नुभएको थियो कि तपाईले के पाउनुभयो जब सामान आउँदै थियो, त्यसपछि तपाईले मौनताको पर्खाल बनाउनुभयो - जुन धेरै सुविधाजनक थियो किनकि तपाई मौन हुनुहुन्थ्यो। तर त्यो तपाईलाई अरु कसैलाई हानि पुर्‍याउनबाट बचाउनको लागि थियो किनभने तपाईलाई कस्तो महसुस भइरहेको थियो?

दर्शक: मैले कहिलेकाहीँ यस्तै महसुस गरेको छु। मलाई यसपटक त्यस्तो लागेन । मलाई यस्तो लाग्यो कि म धेरै रिसाएको थिएँ। मैले सबै कुरा यसरी हेरिरहेको थिएँ: "यी सबै संसारिक प्राणीहरू, सबै बाँधिएका, अज्ञानको खोलामा तैरिरहेका छन्। यदि मैले तिनीहरू मध्ये कुनैसँग अन्तरक्रिया गरें भने, यो खराब हुन गइरहेको छ। [हाँसो] यहाँ हामी सबै संसारमा छौं। म संलग्न नहुनु राम्रो।" म साच्चै रिसाएको थिएँ।

VTC: What I find helpful when I’m in a bad mood is to just say, “This is just a bad mood.” Usually my bad moods are over by the end of the day. I find it very difficult to keep the bad mood until the next day. I guess if I tried harder I could do it. [Joking] If you say, “Okay, I’m just in a bad mood today.” All you do is go to sleep—sometimes the bad mood is because you’re tired. You sleep and you wake up refreshed, and you generate bodhicitta and it’s not there. You say okay. Or you do taking and giving for all the people who really have problems with their moods.

उत्प्रेरणाहरू अभिव्यक्त गर्दै

दर्शक: मैले भर्खरै मेरो संस्करण, मेरो अवधारणाहरू अन्वेषण गरिरहेको छु, र यो धेरै स्पष्ट भयो कि आत्म-पालन, मेरो दिमागमा यसको विशेषताहरू मध्ये एक, पागलपनको एक निश्चित स्तर छ। मलाई यहाँका एक जना बासिन्दाको सम्बन्धमा केही वर्षअघि खाजाको टेबलमा भएको कुराकानी याद छ। मैले उसले गरिरहेकी थिई र किन गरिरहेकी थिईन् भन्ने सबै कुराहरू बुझ्न थालें। तपाईंले भन्नुभयो, "तपाईंको प्रेरणा के हो भनेर पत्ता लगाउन तपाईंसँग पर्याप्त समय छ। अरू मानिसहरूको प्रेरणा के हो भनेर तपाईं कसरी पत्ता लगाउन सक्नुहुन्छ।"

मैले पत्ता लगाएँ कि मेरो आत्म-पालन यति पागल छ कि जब म परिस्थितिहरूमा प्रतिक्रियाको यी बानी अवस्थाहरू मध्ये एकमा पुग्छु, व्यक्तिगत रूपमा मलाई लाग्छ कि मानिसहरूले यो हानि गर्ने उद्देश्यले गरिरहेका छन्। तिनीहरूको सम्पूर्ण प्रेरणाले मलाई दुःख दिनु हो। यो सानो सानो कुरामा हुन सक्छ।

दर्शक: म साँच्चै यो पागल आत्म-पालन मा एक नजर लिइरहेको छु। मैले भर्खरै अनुमान गरेको छु कि मेरो सम्बन्धमा धेरै मानिसहरूका कार्यहरूको प्रेरणा हानि वा असुविधा वा अविवेकी हुन वा अनादर गर्ने हो। निस्सन्देह, कथा एक क्रेसेन्डो मा सुरु हुन्छ किनभने मैले पहिले नै आफूलाई आक्रमण गर्न सेट अप गरेको छु। बिस्तारै बिस्तारै निर्माण गर्नु पनि पर्दैन । यो पृष्ठ 47 मा आउँछ। त्यसैले मैले हिजो हेर्न पाए। र म खुशी थिएँ कि मैले परिस्थितिलाई पूर्ण रूपमा फरक रूपमा हेर्नको लागि छनौट गरें। तर म इमानदारीपूर्वक विश्वास गर्छु कि मैले परिस्थितिलाई बुझ्ने तरिकाले मात्र यो बुझ्न सकिन्छ। यो मेरो लागि ठूलो छ। यो हिजो उच्च थियो। यो एक उपयोगी कुरा थियो। मलाई थाहा छ कि मसँग अर्को छनौट गर्ने शक्ति छ र यो ठूलो कुरा होइन। त्यो अर्को भाग हो। अहंकार भन्छ म यस प्रकारको पागल फ्रेमवर्कमा फसेको छु। म हैन। मैले केवल कथा छोड्नु पर्छ र सबै कुरा झर्छ। कूल।

VTC: That’s exactly it. We do have quite a big habit to impute motivations on people and to assume that they deliberately want to harm us. Then we assume that if they want to harm us, that our anger is valid. Now, is that logical? If somebody wants to harm me, that makes my anger valid.

You have a syllogism here: “It is proper to be angry when somebody does something you don’t like, because they are deliberately trying to harm you.” Then you have to go to the pervasion, “If somebody is deliberately trying to harm you, does that mean that your anger is proper and suitable?” Is that true? We think it is, but is it true?

दर्शक: शान्तिदेवका अनुसार होइन ।

VTC: Right. Somehow we think if they meant bad towards me then I have a real reason to be angry. Then I can take the ball and run with the anger. Shantideva says no, that’s not a good reason. It doesn’t matter whether they wanted to harm you or didn’t want to harm you. As you said, most of the time they have no intention to harm us, but even if they did, it still doesn’t mean that the anger is suitable.

तिमीले मलाई मुक्का हान्यौ त्यसैले म तिमीलाई मुक्का लगाउन सक्छु। त्यहाँको तर्क यही हो। तिमीले मलाई बालुवा फ्याँक्यौ त्यसैले म तिमीलाई बालुवा फाल्न सक्छु। तपाईंले मेरो देशमा आतंकवाद गर्नुभयो त्यसैले म तपाईंको देशमा बम गर्न सक्छु। वा यदि यो तपाईंको देश, तपाईं बस्ने देश, वा अरू कसैलाई तपाईंसँग सम्बद्ध भएकोमा शंका गरे पनि। ठ्याक्कै तर्क यही हो। धेरै राम्रो तर्क छैन।

नकारात्मक भावना र वैचारिक दिमाग

दर्शक: You were saying before that the moment you drop the story, the emotion falls away. I was wondering if—this may be kind of dry, but it has some application to my experience—When you mean the emotion falls away, when the story falls away, you don’t necessarily mean the actual painful feelings, do you? Because I can drop the story and the painful feeling can sometimes continue on and then that tapers off later on. For example, the physiological tightness in my chest with anger, or even just the mental disturbance, because I can drop the story and then there’s sort of like a landing.

VTC: त्यसोभए तपाईले सोधिरहनुभएको छ किनकी तपाईले कथा छोड्नुहुन्छ र भावना हट्छ, तर के नराम्रो भावना केहि समयको लागि जारी हुँदैन?

If you have some physiological element, yeah, that’s going to take some while for your body to adjust again. But, if that’s not the case—I find myself sometimes once I drop the story, I’m laughing because how I was thinking is so hilarious. Maybe it takes you a while—you’re dropping it slowly, the feelings are going away slowly.

दर्शक: त्यसोभए कुनै पनि समय त्यहाँ भावनाहरू छन्, त्यहाँ कथा छ जुन यसको साथ आउँछ त्यसैले कुनै पनि समयमा हामीले केहि अनुभव गरिरहेका छौं, हामीले केवल कथा के हो भनेर खोज्नु पर्छ?

VTC: Yes, usually when there’s a very strong negative emotion—because negative emotions are conceptual minds. They’re not direct perceivers. They’re conceptual. That means they have a mental image as their object. That means that there’s some story going on. We see anger as a direct perception, but it’s not. It’s perceiving a mental image or a meaning generality of the person or whatever.

दर्शक: त्यसैकारण रिस उठ्दा तिम्रो मन... ओह, म किन रिसाएको ? एकचोटि तपाईंले कथा बाहिर काम गरेपछि, तपाईंलाई वास्तवमा के भइरहेको छ थाहा छ। त्यसोभए यो हास्यास्पद प्रकारको छ एक पटक तपाईले कथा के हो हेर्नुभयो।

भावना संगै रहन्छ

VTC: Exactly. Sometimes you might just have an unpleasant mental feeling without being angry although they usually go pretty much together. Usually, when we have an unpleasant mental feeling, there’s some anger going on. It can be very helpful at that time to just watch the unpleasant mental feeling. One way to do it is to look at the story, another way is to watch the unpleasant mental feeling. You see how long it stays. Just examine this unpleasant mental feeling. What does it feel like in my mind? And what does it feel like in my body?

Usually we’re having an unpleasant mental feeling and then right away we’re reacting, “I don’t like this.” Then we get caught up in the anger of, “I don’t like this. I want it to go away. It’s not fair.”

कहिलेकाहीँ यो केवल अप्रिय मानसिक भावना र कुनै कथा संग रहन धेरै रोचक छ। तिमी आफैंले कथा सुनाउनुहुन्न। तपाईं केवल अप्रिय मानसिक भावनामा ध्यान दिनुहोस्। त्यो धेरै रोचक हुन सक्छ किनभने तपाईं कहिलेसम्म एक अप्रिय मानसिक भावनामा ध्यान दिन सक्नुहुन्छ? जब तपाईको दिमागले कथा सुनाउन थाल्छ, तपाईले भन्नुहुन्छ, "होइन, यो कथाको बारेमा होइन। भावनामा फर्कौं।" त्यो अनुभूति कहिलेसम्म त्यहाँ रहन्छ?

चिन्ता, डर र आसक्ति

दर्शक: Does that apply to anxiety? I read that anxiety is an offshoot of anger. I’m trying to flesh that out in my mind. It seems like fear. Being anxious is related to fear.

VTC: So what about anxiety and anger? There are different kinds of anxiety. I tend to see anxiety as often related to fear, which is related to attachment. When we’re attached to something and we don’t want to lose it. Or we’re attached to something in the future, and it hasn’t come about but we really want it to come about and we’re afraid it won’t—then we get anxious.

त्यसैले विभिन्न कारणले विभिन्न प्रकारका चिन्ताहरू छन्।

दर्शक: It’s complicated, isn’t it? It didn’t seem to me that when I had a terrible anxiety attack once, but I couldn’t really relate it to anger. It didn’t feel like anger. It was more attachment.

VTC: Yes, I think it’s more attachment—fear is very related to attachment also. Fear and worry are attached to something. You don’t want to separate from it, so you’re afraid you’re going to lose it. You worry about losing it. Or you want something in the future. You’re afraid you want get it. You’re worried that you won’t get it, so that worry and fear and anxiety (follows). Sometimes from there, some people go to anger. Some people stay in the fear and worry and anxiety. Some people go to the anger, because when you’re angry, you feel powerful. When you feel anxious, you don’t feel so powerful. I think people sometimes go to anger because it gets them over the hump of the uncomfortableness of feeling powerless.

दर्शक: यो एउटा रोचक कुरा हो। मलाई थाहा थिएन यो के हो। मलाई हृदयाघात भयो भन्ने लाग्यो। म घरबारविहीन आश्रयमा काम गरिरहेको थिएँ। यसको एक अंश मैले पहिलो दिन मेरो श्रवण उपकरण लगाएको थिएँ, र मैले तिनीहरूलाई राख्नु हुँदैनथ्यो किनभने त्यहाँ धेरै आवाज थियो। र त्यहाँ एक भावनात्मक कुरा पनि थियो।

मलाई यहाँ यस्तो पीडा भयो कि मलाई हृदयघात भएको हो जस्तो लाग्यो। तिनीहरूले मलाई अस्पताल लगे र मलाई हरेक परीक्षणमा राखे। तिनीहरूले मलाई रातभर राखे - यसले मलाई एक हजार रुपैयाँभन्दा बढी खर्च गर्यो। तिनीहरूले भने, "तिम्रो मन ठूलो छ। हामीलाई थाहा छैन यो के हो। ”

Then the next morning, I was doing meditation and I could just visualize acid pouring into my stomach. I knew right away it was anxiety. I’ve never had an anxiety attack before, and I’ve never known there could be physical pain with it. It was quite a lesson that I realized it for myself from my meditation.

दर्शक: I’ve had anxiety attacks intermittently throughout my life, and I don’t consider myself manifestly anxious very often. But indeed, one of the first things that I notice is the physical pain of it. Your body becomes so hypersensitive, like even moving feels painful.

दर्शक: यो भयानक छ।

दर्शक: मलाई पनि हृदयाघात होला जस्तो लाग्यो । म जस्तै थिए, "के हुँदैछ?"

VTC: चुपचाप बसौं र सबै चिन्ता छोडौं।

आदरणीय थबटेन चोड्रन

अल्बर्ट जेरोम रामोस सान एन्टोनियो, टेक्सासमा जन्मे र हुर्केका थिए। उहाँ 2005 देखि कैदमा हुनुहुन्छ र हाल उत्तरी क्यारोलिना क्षेत्र मन्त्री कार्यक्रममा भर्ना हुनुहुन्छ। स्नातक पछि उसले मानसिक स्वास्थ्य समस्याहरू, औषधि निर्भरता र बाल्यकालको आघातबाट संघर्ष गर्नेहरूलाई जेलमा परेका मानिसहरूलाई मद्दत गर्ने कार्यक्रमहरू सुरु गर्ने योजना बनाएको छ। उनी बालपुस्तकका लेखक हुन् गेभिनले खुशीको रहस्य पत्ता लगाए.